Post-Apocalyptic Thriller '40 Acres'

The new thriller '40 Acres' follows an African-American and Indigenous-American blended family tending to and protecting their farm in Canada after a post-apocalyptic event has wiped out all livestock and caused society to crumble. Star Danielle Deadwyler and writer-director R.T. Thorne discuss the film and its themes.

David Furst: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm David Furst filling in for Alison Stewart. The new movie 40 Acres takes its name from the famous broken promise after the Civil War, that promise of reparations to formerly enslaved African Americans: of 40 acres and a mule. In the new film, the 40 acres may be there, but there is no mule in the world. The film imagines a deadly fungus has wiped out all livestock. Farms are the most precious land, and society has crumbled.

Danielle Deadwyler plays Hailey Freeman, the matriarch of a blended family on a homestead farm in Canada that was passed down to her. The Freemans tend to their crops and defend their land in a world where resources are scarce and many people have resorted to theft and cannibalism. Here's a clip featuring Hailey radioing to a fellow farmer. Hailey speaks second.

Farmer: I figure you've heard about the attack by now.

Hailey Freeman: Thought your Union army was going to come take care [bleep].

Farmer: Yes, with the Fleming's missing, that makes three farms gone dark. Starting to feel serious. Farmers could use your help. Union government sent some soldiers.

Hailey Freeman: Government ain't done nothing but kill, steal, and lock up Black folks before they even fell apart. Sorry, I ain't stepping in to help any of them [bleep].

Farmer: I ain't asking you to help the youth. [bleep] It's farmers. Even if you came out here, trained them for a couple days, it make all the difference.

Hailey Freeman: Sorry, I can't risk the exposure.

David Furst: With threats coming from all around them, the Freemans have to protect their farm and their family. 40 Acres is in theaters now, starring Danielle Deadwyler and written and directed by R.T. Thorne in his feature debut. They both join us now on All Of It. R.T. Thorne and Danielle Deadwyler. Welcome.

Danielle Deadwyler: Thank you so much for having us.

R.T. Thorne: Thank you.

David Furst: R.T., there are a lot of elements in this story. A world where livestock are wiped out, a civil war, the idea of farmland being the ultimate commodity, an allegory for reparations. Where does this story begin for you? What was the first kernel of an idea?

R.T. Thorne: Truthfully, it really started with a relationship with my mother. I really wanted to speak, I think, probably about what she means to me, my life, and how she's guided a lot of my life, and a particular moment in our relationship where I was at a certain age and I was struggling to figure out my own sense of freedom. My mother was a Trinidadian immigrant, came to Canada and suffered a lot of discrimination and had her way of maneuvering through the world, and wanted to impart that knowledge down to me. It was very strict household. She was not a military assassin, you know what I'm saying? She was a tough cookie. She is a tough cookie.

David Furst: The movie, it's not literal, obviously.

R.T. Thorne: [laughs] No, sir. No, sir. We didn't have to fight off.

David Furst: It sounds like there are some elements of that relationship in the movie.

R.T. Thorne: Absolutely, absolutely. It started with that space of wanting to have a conversation about what can be a very universal conflict between generations, and really paying tribute to her as a woman who taught us how to move through the world. Then I'm a genre kid and I love science fiction and horror and thrillers and wanted to project that relationship into a world that had the highest stakes you could imagine.

Part of that is also rooted in her very adamant need for us to learn about our histories and our culture and know where we came from. A lot of the stuff that is in the movie with Hailey getting her children to do book reports and understand their culture and history, that came from my mother. While I was in school, she was making us do book reports on the weekend, reading text.

David Furst: Nice.

R.T. Thorne: That's where the historical component really started to come in. This idea of cultural and historical preservation within ourselves was very important to the family. It grew out of that.

David Furst: R.T., that historical context and that deep relationship, big parts of the movie. Let me just say right now, it does not fail to deliver on the horror. It's scary.

R.T. Thorne: Yes.

David Furst: Danielle, what was it in this script that felt different when you picked it up?

Danielle Deadwyler: Oh, everything about the land felt familiar, quite frankly. Women who have this maternal, the discipline, the strictness, the need to protect, the need to instill survival skills, all of that felt extremely familiar. Putting that in the context of the world, of the fugitivity that they're essentially living in, inside of their farm, inside of their home, but yet, the expansiveness of the education, the expansiveness of the survival tactics, all of that was something that was curious and intriguing to me.

At core, what does it mean to live on land, to grow it, to have such a historical allegiance, and putting of your limbs and your soul into this dirt. Those were things that were critical to me at the moment. R.T. and I talked about that before I even flew up to northern Canada, north of Toronto and Sudbury to shoot, because I was on my own little trek about what does it mean to connect to my family and the ways which we had, or the short ways, the small ways that I had known because I was a child and my grandparents had a garden and we would play in it sometimes, and they did all these other things to maintain family and culture that weren't necessarily connected to governmental resources and whatnot.

When this came along, it just clicked. We shot during the strikes on a waiver, and everything just came together, and it just spoke to me for all of those reasons and a bit more, and traveling to Canada to do this on this land and to think about the history between Black folks in this nation and in Canada and to consider the shift of things relationally. Everything is just all of those things, the familiar and the unfamiliar, brought me to 40.

David Furst: Talking about all of those farming details, Danielle, you can really feel the earth watching this movie. All of the journey that the food takes, literally from farm just outside the house to table, as these people are really touching the earth with their fingers.

Danielle Deadwyler: Yes. It's such a big deal to people across the political spectrum, across from city folks to country folks, like people are returning to this understanding of where things derive. A chicken nugget isn't just a chicken nugget from birth. It's a chicken. People are learning and wanting to implement these ways in their life presently. R.T.'s just a part of that landscape or that cultural escape of folks who want to get back to that understanding. Hailey and the Freemans as a family are forced to do so as a result of the political war climate of the world they live in.

David Furst: R.T., there's a real split in this film between the people who know how to grow things, know how to use the land, and those who do not.

R.T. Thorne: Yes. A lot of that, I was writing it before we went into the pandemic, so I've been writing it for a little bit of time, I'll tell you the truth. When we did go into the pandemic, that's when everything really started to hit home in a major way. The first-- I would say the first year of that pandemic, when we were all quite unaware of how it was going to turn out. It's easy to think about it now. We're past it, but in those [inaudible 00:09:34], we could not-- in some communities, in a lot of communities, we could not get fresh fruit. Grocery stores were not stocked.

David Furst: Were you thinking, "What movie did I just write here?"

R.T. Thorne: Yes. You know what I mean? That's when it became crystallized to me in a very real way, where I was like, "Am I actually capable of providing food for my family? Do I know how to make the land produce so that I can do this?" The infrastructure around us is not providing for us. It became very real. I can't lie, a good deal of the research that I did was for myself.

[laughter]

David Furst: So you could know what you were talking about?

R.T. Thorne: I was like, "I don't even know if this movie will be around. [crosstalk] [unintelligible 00:10:22] I better learn how to grow some of this squash and this corn."

David Furst: Wow. Speaking about getting real, it gets real right away at the beginning of this movie. Our introduction to the Freemans in the film is a violent one. We see them take out a whole band of raiders who are coming onto their farmland in pretty gruesome fashion. Why did you want to introduce them to us this way?

R.T. Thorne: I felt that I wanted the story to drop you into their lives. This is like their weekly lives.

David Furst: Day at the office.

R.T. Thorne: Day at the office for them. Yes. It's quite different than a day in the office for nearly anybody else. I thought, look, the best way to show you who these people are is to show you what they have to be up to. It's a very brutal existence. It's a hard existence. It's one that is very little sympathy in their world. If you have farmland in this world, people are coming for you on the regular. Hailey needs to be able to train her children to do the things that need to be done, because a stray bullet or a blade is a difference between life and death, and they need to be able to continue without her.

It seemed like the correct way of introducing, even though it's harsh. Then I like the challenge of introducing you to somebody in a very challenging way, and then have you hopefully fall for them by the end of the movie.

David Furst: Because it's not a cuddly way to get to know these characters.

R.T. Thorne: Oh, it is not. No, it is not.

David Furst: You don't begin in a place of sympathy. You're like, "What is happening?" Danielle, you play this incredible character, Hailey, the strong female lead to this film, around whom, really, this entire universe revolves. Despite all of this bloodshed that we see in this opening scene, Hailey has this strict no-cursing rule. Tell us about that and some of her priorities.

Danielle Deadwyler: I just first want to say, yes, R.T. came to me because I'm cuddly, because I'm sweet, and I'll [crosstalk]--

R.T. Thorne: Absolutely.

Danielle Deadwyler: I just appreciate him for magnetizing me to this. I just think that's old southern Black folk ways. It's a part of respect and not falling into just overdoing it and gluttonous behavior in a certain way. At the end of the day, at base level, you're not an adult. You don't get to say what you want to say in that way. There are these things that are counter to each other. Yes. My poor baby, who is the youngest, gets to shoot cannibals in their head or raiders in the head, and is gleeful about a headshot. Yet, no, it's not okay for her to curse. This is just the way of this world.

David Furst: I want to play a clip from the film that shows some of these family dynamics. Hailey's son, Emmanuel, stumbles across a cannibal outpost, where he finds hanging bodies. Back at the farm, Emmanuel makes a casual joke about it, and several family members do as well. Hailey takes issue with Emmanuel in particular.

Hailey Freeman: You think bodies hanging in the depot, people we probably knew dead, soon to be eaten by the same bastards that shot your sister. You think that's funny?

Emmanuel: No.

Hailey Freeman: No. I think you think it's a joke. All y'all, did I or did I not say we were on high alert? Was I unclear? Was I unclear?

Emmanuel: No, ma'am.

Child: No, ma'am.

Hailey Freeman: The whole property could be lurking with these bastards. You wouldn't know, because none of you was in your position when I called, and you got the audacity to be sitting here and be making jokes.

David Furst: Hailey really focuses her anger on Emmanuel here. Not as much the other kids. Can you talk about what-- Danielle, what is behind Hailey's anger here?

Danielle Deadwyler: It's a critical moment between a child's life of-- Not even a child, the teen's life of stepping into adulthood and lingering in the naivete, in the adolescence. It's such a moment. It's a moment that my son is in. It's like, "Have I given you enough to know that you can do what needs to be done?" Also, have I given you enough to understand that this is a really urgent moment? Do you get it? If I feel that you don't get it, it's angering me, it's boiling me up to confront you in this way.

I have to tell you how severe life is. I have to protect you. If it's not sinking in, how much more belligerent, how much more pushy, how much more fire can I give you? Sometimes that just doesn't work. Like, why does-- The theory is not cracking. The practices is going to have to do what it has to do.

David Furst: I feel like I can only say what the characters say in the film. That's "yes, ma'am." Your character is so-- You have to see this movie. Your character is so indelible in this movie. It's just an incredible performance.

Danielle Deadwyler: Thank you. [chuckles] Made all of us be quiet.

[laughter]

David Furst: The movie.

R.T. Thorne: The whole set after that, at every take, everybody says, "Can we say cut?"

David Furst: [laughs] That went right through. Not only everyone acting, but everyone behind the cameras as well.

R.T. Thorne: Reverberated right through the crew.

David Furst: The film, by the way, is 40 Acres. We're speaking with Danielle Deadwyler and the film's writer and director, R.T. Thorne. It is now in theaters. I want to talk about this family, R.T., in the film. Galen is the father figure in this group. Of course, we've been talking about Hailey. The Freemans are a mixed-race family, Black and Indigenous. When did you know that was going to be the case? Was that something that was important to you in the film?

R.T. Thorne: Yes. As I kept writing the film, and some of the historical context came into it, and once we started having a conversation about land and land sovereignty, and once those conversations came in, it just started to feel right to me that the conversation should be expanded between communities of African descent and Indigenous communities. Those are two communities that have been dramatically impacted by colonialism. There's been attempted eradication of our lives, of our identities throughout history. In many ways, Black communities and Indigenous communities have lived through apocalyptic times.

It's like you really have. It's through the preservation of our identities, the focus on cultural practices that have kept us resilient and alive, and an understanding of who we are. It just fell together and felt right for this family to be a blended one that understood that cultural significance, that preservation being a focus. Also, I started to really look at the history of film, and I'm like, "I've never seen this family centered. I've never seen a Black and Indigenous family really centered as heroes in this film."

Oftentimes, you may have seen Black and Indigenous people in westerns, but they're often some sidekick, somebody's got an Indigenous wife who doesn't say anything. You never see these two communities together as heroes in something. I love that they are the ones that are the most resilient in this future, because of what they've been through.

David Furst: Danielle, do you want to jump in on that thought, too? It's a movie that makes you suddenly think about things when you least expect it almost. I'm watching some of it behind my fingers, just peeking through when there's some pretty gruesome scenes going on. Suddenly something will happen that just makes you think about some of the themes, really, that R.T. is bringing up.

Danielle Deadwyler: As hardcore as this family is, they have the survival ways in all of the ways. How to maintain the land, how to forage. All of that is coming from Galen, the language. He's teaching, imparting this onto his children.

David Furst: He's a Cree speaker, right?

Danielle Deadwyler: Yes.

David Furst: Making sure he teaches this language to his children.

Danielle Deadwyler: Children. Everybody understands it to a certain degree, but he's the one who is speaking it, and really further encouraging this knowledge. The understanding of herbs and what he does forage for. How much value herbs and spices are to their community and to their food, and then thinking about cultural, that is inclusive of the literary. Going back to the book reports, it's not just-- If you think of it deeper, it's not just a book report. Parable of the Sower, the Proletarian POCKETBOOK. This is understanding economic systems. This is understanding hierarchy. This is understanding the Black imagination, Indigenous imagination, on how to survive difficult times.

As R.T. has imparted before in previous interviews we've been in together, he says that Michael Greyeyes, who plays Galen, always says we have lived in apocalyptic times. We are in an apocalyptic times. It's now, in a way, and we have this knowledge. This knowledge is critical to what it means to get to another side, to get to the other side. Having the awareness of, say, a Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler. She had imagined this back in the freaking '80s. What it means to think about community, to think about spirituality, to think about what am I carrying with me just in case. I think that that's just the beauty of this family coming together from these two specific American experiences.

David Furst: All of that, plus the generational differences that we were talking about earlier. R.T., Hailey and her son Emmanuel, from very different places. Hailey lived through all of the changes, the pandemic that brought on the collapse of society. Emmanuel was just a kid when it all began. As we wrap up here, can you talk about how some of those generational differences really play out in their relationship and what that brings to the movie?

R.T. Thorne: Sure, yes. Look, it's very much-- Like I said, that's a universal thing that happens with all families. I think the connectivity to what goes on in a family is very important. I love films that are character-based, character-driven. I think the family unit is something that inherently all humans can connect to. I was very interested in exploring this thriller, but through a family lens, and that the conflicts within the family, those are actually the biggest things. There's all this scary stuff that's around them that's putting pressure on this family.

You come to care about this family, and you hope that they can resolve their differences before everything goes wrong. Those are the most interesting films to me, where I'm so invested in the characters. I'm almost screaming at somebody, like, "Stop, listen to your mom, or do whatever it is that you need to do so that you guys can survive."

David Furst: There was some screaming at the film in my home when I was watching it.

R.T. Thorne: Great, amazing, great. I'm happy it happened. That was the pressure cooker that I wanted to put the audience in, and for them to care about this family enough that by the end, when everything goes down, you have a sense of relief and hope, and heart in this film.

David Furst: I think it's becoming very clear. There's not one basket where you can place this movie. It doesn't just fit neatly into horror. I would like to thank you both so much for joining us today. You have to check out the film. It is called 40 Acres. It is in theaters now, starring Danielle Deadwyler, written and directed by R.T. Thorne in your debut, which is incredible. It is such a treat to have you both with us today. Thank you for joining us on All Of It.

Danielle Deadwyler: Thank you. This has been beautiful.

R.T. Thorne: Thank you.